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Superpowers School - Self Improvement Podcast Like Diary of a CEO
E97: Self-Help - Invest in Yourself: Building Your Professional Edge for Success - Kerry Nickols (Chief Mischief Maker & NLP Master Practitioner)
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E97: Self-Help - Invest in Yourself: Building Your Professional Edge for Success - Kerry Nickols (Chief Mischief Maker & NLP Master Practitioner)

We delve into the concept of developing a professional edge. We discuss a practical framework to help you build your professional edge by looking at our Inside Edge, Outside Edge, and Leading Edge. Additionally, we touch upon the power of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) in understanding and shaping our subjective experiences, enabling personal growth and fostering collaborative relationships. Don't miss this insightful episode packed with valuable insights for building your professional edge.


Kerry Nickols (Chief Mischief Maker & NLP Master Practitioner)

Kerry worked within Banking in the Financial Services industry sector. Throughout her career she worked in the front office, middle office Finance, Legal, Operations and Technology. It’s fair to say she knows her way around a Corporate environment. She now inspires leaders to reach their fullest potential. She is an award-winning leader through her work in diversity and inclusion. With more than 20 years’ hands-on experience working in the financial services industry she understands these challenges and opportunities facing leaders in the Age of Digital. Her internationally-focused work designing and implementing bespoke leadership and coaching programmes has afforded her the opportunity to learn what the difference is that makes the difference for people and organisations. She is a mischievous explorer of hearts and minds and enables growth and positive change.

Website: KEPAGA

Email: kerry@kepaga.com

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Transcription:

[00:01:06] Paddy Dhanda: Hey folks. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Superpower School podcast. I'm your host, Paddy dda, and on today's episode I have a special friend who I've been trying to get on the podcast for. Probably months and months, but we finally made it happen. She is an n l master practitioner, a trainer, a leadership coach, and a the co-founder of Kaga where her. Official title is Chief Mischief Maker, which I prefer rather than all those other fancy titles.

And she's someone who we always have a running joke, was probably Indian in her last life as well. And we'll reveal all on that. But I just wanna welcome the amazing Kerry Nichols to the show. Hey Kerry.

[00:01:54] Kerry Nickols: Oh, thank you, Paddy. Thank you. I was thinking about two things then just in those introductions.

When I first set up KEPAGA, I had another business just before then. But my background has always been, as an employee in a corporate environment, investment banking generally. And I never, ever, in all that time in my. I dunno, 20 odd years of working in investment banking, never got to choose my title.

It's always a title that's given to you. So as soon as we set up Kaga and we thought, well, we were once asked, what is your title? And I thought, actually I don't have fun and I can make it up. So, I would say that. More people connect with me on LinkedIn and just say, I love your title. Chief Mischief Maker.

It connects me with more people than I think anything else has.

[00:02:46] Paddy Dhanda: That is super cool. I love that. I know, again, you got my attention straight away when you said that for the first time. And I think more of us should do that, right? We should kind of, explore different titles. I was speaking to a colleague just recently and they were thinking of what title to give themselves and they were looking at a really grand title and I tend to agree with you, I think make it interesting.

[00:03:08] Kerry Nickols: For sure. There was some research done. And the idea came from a book that I read where it said that if we only look in our professional lives and the things that we do, if we only ever look at that in terms of the role that we do, we miss out on, on the mission that we're on and who we are and.

The kind of uniqueness that we bring to the table and that never gets explored because you have a corporate title. It might be VP engineering, you know that. But what does that doesn't really, that just kind of. Buckets you into something. And I get it. Matrix organizations, large, massive organizations, need some way in which to do that.

But I would also love to see that, if people were just explained a little bit about what they do or that, what they really bring that's the whole point for me is about professionals. And this human side of being a professional, you know that's where the future's headed. And I think these little things that we can do make all the difference.

[00:04:14] Paddy Dhanda: Yeah. Which brings me onto the superpower you'd like to bring to this episode.

[00:04:19] Kerry Nickols: I'd like to bring having an edge as a professional, so a real, like professional edge. I always felt in my career that there were certain things that I would. Learn like technical skills, domain skills industry skills, all of that great stuff and the knowledge that goes along with that, and the practical side of that and how you do it really well.

But the rest of the staff. Always seemed to me to come through the school of hard knocks, and that was the whole people leadership. Making connections, getting the best out of people your own resilience. All of that stuff was kind of left to chance and some people made it, some people didn't.

And I never really bought into that school of thought. And I guess that was really the basis of Kaga starting was the fact that. Especially now in the world of, AI technology, machine learning, we are all shifting and the VUCA landscape, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity, all of that locked together to me is just showing a very clear path that as humans, The world of work can be really exciting.

So rather than a potential fearful approach of these things, that it just opens up a whole different set of avenues of how we work and what we bring to it. Which is why I think now the narrative of, the soft stuff being the weak stuff has just been blown out. The water which I'm loving because you know That's what we do.

I love the whole human side and untapped potential. And a belief that I hold is we're not our finished product. The fun is in the making. And so wherever we are on whatever journey we're on, it's, it doesn't end, there isn't an end point. It's this kind of, it is motion, it just continues.

[00:06:20] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, I love that. And. The mission of this podcast has always been about focusing on those human skills. So I think we're a perfect match for this episode, Kerry, and for those that don't know about your background, and I know you've alluded to some of your previous experiences there, could you give us more insight into that?

And if you could connect the Indian side as well for us in that story, that would be great.

[00:06:44] Kerry Nickols: Do you know what I have with me? I'm not sure whether it even gonna be on video, but I after your mum's lesson in chapati making roti making, I understand that chapati was the English word roti making.

Yeah. I have this and I also have, my filled little tin here as well. Of all my goodies. Oh,

[00:07:05] Paddy Dhanda: wow.

[00:07:07] Kerry Nickols: So let me connect those dots. In terms of background I kind of in a way stumbled across. Banking. I joined a Japanese bank as my first kind of foray into banking and I always believed that maths wasn't my strong point.

And I would like to say that's been blown out of the water, but it hasn't, maths still isn't my strong point. I actually, I joined banking in a legal department. I found that what I loved was being able to interpret legal language into something that could be practical. And if you think about a transaction or a deal, it would be about, well, we've got legal.

And we've got operations and we've got maybe finance and we've got, the front office and we've got all these different areas. And my job at the time was kind of to interpret everything that everybody said to get a deal out to market. I found myself being able to flex with all of those different groups.

In a way that I could understand exactly what each of them meant, to be able to put something together that could actually get out to market and be bought. And so I started that and picked that up really quite quickly. And then was headhunted to go to another bank. So I was there for two years and got headhunted and.

At the next bank was where I stayed for 18 years. And I think a couple of things happened in that. One was that I was asked to set up a new business within that the States it's so a completely different country. Secondly, I remember in the financial crash, kind of waking up one morning and thinking, actually I don't work for the same company anymore.

We've just been, we've merged overnight. And having the task of being able to bring like two really big banks together. And at that time I worked in the finance department and I think throughout. All of those experiences is where I started to really yearn for personal development.

It didn't seem to me like it was professional development. It was personal development that I needed in a professional setting because it was gonna be about, how I communicated or how I connected with others or, how I felt about different situations and whether that be from a psychology perspective, a philosophy, a sociology, a lot of it was about understanding my own values and beliefs.

How that would then make a difference, because those are really the drivers of our behaviors. So I think that I probably got really intrigued by this whole human notion of stuff and the world of work before it started to become a thing. I just had a natural intrigue in it and an interest.

And so, back in. 2015 I left a wonderful paid job where which I enjoyed. I really enjoyed my career in the city. Absolutely loved it. And I think I, I had some, really great experiences. And I left there knowing that what I wanted to do was to be able to offer the development opportunities to others that I couldn't find for myself.

And and that was really what led to us setting up Kaga. So that was a little bit about my background and how India came into all of this. I guess was a dear friend and a colleague back in my 18 year career at at Merrill Lynch. And she was a really wonderful woman. I really admired her.

She was born in the uk, her parents were from India. And we connected on lots of different levels. And she got into this thing called N L P. And she said to me at one point, she said, oh, Kerry there's some stuff that I really like how you do it, and I'm doing this thing called N L P. And within N L P, there's this element of modeling and I'd like to model you on some of the things that I see you do, and I just thought that one, I was blown away by the compliment when there's no bigger compliment is there than not just somebody feeding back to you to say, Oh, I like what you did there.

This was, I like what you did there, and I wanna learn from you how to do it. That was the first time that I'd ever heard something quite as, as powerful in feedback. And so I was blown away. Of course, the next question that she asked for was maybe a bit of funding and some time off to do the course.

So I'm not too sure if the two things were connected. But we did this thing called modeling and we got on so well anyway, we ended up kind of going in different directions. And she invited me to her wedding, which was in India. And that was the very first time that I traveled to India for this amazing wedding.

And ended up traveling kind of down south and then mid to India. And I think in that time one I've always loved traveling. I actually took a sabbatical when I was at Merrill Lynch for quite some time to just travel the world. So through Russia, Siberia, Mongolia into kind of central Asia and then off to, gosh, where else did I go?

Anyway, lots of places, but basically Trav did around the world trip and In all of that, I have really got to love in a way, seeing how small the UK is. I really feel like I'm a. Global citizen. And now whenever I go to India, I feel like I'm going home. There's just something in me that says, yep, you are on route.

You know that warming feeling that you get when you are going somewhere that is just so culturally rich and. Colorful and people and food. Now I know how to make roadies. So, yeah and of course our work together, Paddy as well. And just spending time, together in India and being able to design, develop, and deliver the kind of courses that we did, which were all about mindset and humanness.

They were less about the technical aspects. I think if we can get people passionate about, a concept or a, or something that they're gonna be doing, if they feel like they've got a calling and a mission where they're headed, then the rest of it becomes easy. That's the bit that we need to kind of, that we need to work on.

So that was the connection with India and a bit my background.

[00:14:29] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, brilliant, Kerry. And I mean, that's a, that's amazing journey that you've been on, especially that corporate world and then being brave enough to take that leap of faith and setting up on your own and now you've set up and co-founded this great organization, Kaga and on the India side, that was quite interesting as well.

When you and I were there, I just remember coming down for breakfast. And as I love my Wier Bs for breakfast. And I think the rest of the staff in the hotel were quite shocked because across the table they see the English person with a whole array of different Indian dishes. And and there's me with my Wier Bs.

And so there's a kind of a contrast there of cultures and I think somewhere should have taken a photo of that would've made a great piece of art just even. That moment of seeing those two contrasting meals. I had a brilliant time, honestly, Kerry when you and I were out there and and I have to say, Kerry is the one person that I've met who can eat chilies.

Like she drinks water. That's just, dunno what you have in your blood there, Kerry.

[00:15:40] Kerry Nickols: And as you saw, my son is a tip off the old block, as they say. He loves his spice and really lucky when we were delivering some stuff in in India and. I was also going to a conference and it was about the same time as the holiday season.

So I was lucky to take Lenny to India and people would say, oh, would you like something else? And it's like, no. Breakfast was curry and doses

[00:16:09] Paddy Dhanda: Just when we were together he was perfectly fine with the spice, and yet my wife had tears in her eyes and I was just like laughing my head off because I knew I was coming.

She didn't, and she fell for it. Oh, no. Brilliant. So Kerry, talking about this kind of personal edge, tell me more about that, because. Initially I was thinking, are you gonna be talking about personal branding? But I don't think that's what you're getting at here. So could you lift the lid on that a little bit more for us so we get to understand what that really means?

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[00:18:13] Shure MV7-2: Now let's get back to the.

[00:18:15] Kerry Nickols: Maybe a way to explain it is if we think about our skillset, our minds might go into our specialism, the thing that we do, and we might place a label. On that thing. And then we might place a label on the, maybe the industry that we're in or the domain skills.

So basically we'll have like specialism, we'll have technical, we'll have domain skills, we'll have a whole load of stuff, which kind of places us. Maybe where we are today and and all of that is important, but it's the rest of the staff that gives us a professional edge. So if you saw a really great engineer let's take an example of a, of an engineer.

I've got somebody actually that's, is spring into mind at the moment. So you get somebody that's a great engineer and that is great technically, but they also have an ability to empathize with colleagues and customers. They also have an ability to maybe story tell. They seem to have a wonderful amount of resilience and I've gotta be careful with the word resilience here, because sometimes I think people think that resilience is, you take on more and you just don't crumble.

So you kind of creak at the thing, holding the weight of everything. I certainly don't mean that. I mean how do you re-energize yourself? What's the energy with everything else going on in life because. It's not just the work side of things is just one angle of who we are.

So I think that. All of these other things, if we take that one person and you think to yourself, wow, that's somebody that I could learn from or that I'm excited to be around, what does that take? If you are motivated in that way by somebody that you come across, that's how we would say that's a professional edge.

And so it's very different to a technical skill. We actually describe it on three levels. So there's the inside edge. How are we feeling about things? What's the values and beliefs that we hold? Where do we personally aspire to kind of head towards and, our own vision.

What mission are we on? What do we. Wants to bring to the table that's really gonna make a difference and helps us to feel fulfilled in the work that we do, rather than waiting for retirement. What's the stuff that kind of excites us? So there's a massive piece of self-awareness in there.

And being able to kind of understand maybe some of the, our own patterns and strategies and things that we run. So there's the whole kind of inner game, the inside edge. Then there's also the outside edge. So the outside edge is all about how we connect with others, the the rapport that we gain.

If we are in a team, what do we bring to that team that's outside of our specialism? What are those gifts that we can kind of gift into that? So the outside edge is all about, it's gonna be trust. It's gonna be how we interact. It's gonna be our style of communication.

And then the leading edge, which is the last kind of element in that professional edge is we don't mean leading and then there's a follower. It's about how we unlock potential in others. Everybody's got untapped potential. So, isn't our role as leadership to help others to fulfill that potential?

I just wanna kind of take a pause on that word leadership for a moment, just like I did on resilience because I think as we progress as professionals, I think there are some pretty big realizations that are happening and they're certainly only for me. Really have only happened in like the last five to 10 years.

So I think one is about resilience, whereas before it was stiff upper a lip. Now we talk about the energy difference and how we re-energize, what we might need to bring our best selves, that kind of thing. Leadership is similar. I think when the narrative between management and leadership started to happen, it was as if they were the same thing.

And now I quite like the definition, which I think it was Amy Edmondson. might be Amy Edmondson. Might, bere Brown, one of them. But they said that leader equals role and leadership is the set of behaviors thinking. Kind of feeling human sentient being that we are. And so when I'm talking about leadership, It's not the role that you are in, cuz we might think of that as being seniority.

I think of leadership as being at all levels. It's the professional edge, whether you are on a graduate scheme or whether you are kind of way up there. From a seniority and a maturity perspective in an organization. The leadership stuff is what we are talking about here. So three elements that make up the professional edge.

[00:23:35] Paddy Dhanda: I love that there's those different layers because when we use that sort of term it feels like, well, is it just about me? Is it about other people? Like where do I start with that? And so if somebody did want to analyze and I guess, start to reflect on their professional edge.

What's a good starting point for, say someone like me? I've got maybe a couple of things that I'm really passionate about that are my specialisms, and now I want to build these other aspects to my overall skillset. Where might I start?

[00:24:10] Kerry Nickols: Good question.

The first thing that's springs to mind is we've actually created a little school card for people if they are interested. So, because that question came up a lot, okay, I've connected, I know now what you mean by professional edge. Where do I start? What do I do? So we actually, we created a scorecard, I think a lot of these things give you some form of right or wrong answer.

And having a professional edge is so unique and subjective to the individual that there isn't a right or wrong. So therefore, the scorecard that we created was much more about being able to reflect on a set of questions that would lead you to consider some things in that space. So you're not gonna get, is this right or is this wrong?

It's a. What are you thinking? What's your current thoughts around, resilience or when do you notice that you are least resilient and when do you notice that you are most resilient and what is resilience to you? So therefore, I would say for sure take the score card because at least it will give you some areas in which to reflect.

But I also think that there, there is now some. So much out there in maybe little pockets of places. So I think, some wonderful books out there that are, really enlightening. I think TED Talks are something else that's really enlightening, but I think if you're gonna do some of this kind of reflective space just for yourself, I would probably break it down into those three areas.

So inside edge, outside edge, leading edge. So inside edge would be reflecting more on kind of who you are as a person and where you want to head to. So a great little technique for doing that. It's just to think to yourself, well, if I'm in three years time and then you find a spot somewhere in the room where three years time would be and just go and stand in that spot.

The physical movement of moving to somewhere. All of a sudden your mind starts to go, oh, so it's that, that I'd quite like, and you are not gonna get from that little exercise. You are not gonna get, my next career move my, where I'm gonna be living, you know what kind of relationship I'm gonna be in you.

You're not gonna get the specifics, but you might get a little bit of a flavor that says one. It's achievable cuz if I walked there, then I'm able to get there. But secondly, when you look back from a place in the future and you look back to now, your mind has to create a pathway as to how to get back. So it's a really neat little tool just to start exercising what you might want for the future by stepping into it now.

What you're seeing, what you're hearing, how do you feel about where you are in that three years on spot?

[00:27:19] Paddy Dhanda: I was gonna say that's a bit of a technique I use when I'm speaking sometimes if I'm talking about the past and the present and the future, and I'll actually physically move.

Across the room just to get the audience to almost visualize the past and visualize the present. But that's more of a presentation technique. But I can see how that would be super useful to do when you're reflecting on your own future really is what you're saying. So you are taking yourself into that space.

I know you're a N L P master practitioner, and for anyone who doesn't know what N L P is, it'd be great just to get your view on that, your quick summary of what it is and how can N L P help with the professional edge as well in building that professional edge.

[00:28:04] Kerry Nickols: Good question.

So N L P is neuro linguistic programming, not natural language processing. Although I say they're different things. The more that I'm learning about natural language processing, the more that I'm seeing the the synergies between the two. But let's stick with neurolinguistic programming.

So, There are many definitions and descriptions of N L P. The one that I have chose to stick to is that it's the study of the structure of subjective experience. Now that's gonna take a lot to absorb, so let me break that down a little bit. You and I we're gonna be very unique individuals with different thought patterns.

We would've had different experiences. We would've come through our careers in different routes. So therefore, what we bring to the table is a very subjective unique us, which is great. Now. Because we have these experiences, these subjective experiences we grow a real empathetic lens for each other because of the fact that we recognize that how I might come at something is not the reality of the world.

It's just my reality. And that is really freeing and empowering. But it's also, Safe to say that we are creatures of habit, and so the way that we do one thing is often the way that we do many so, Understanding ourselves is kind of rule number one. When it comes to N L P. We get to really understand ourselves in a kind of deeper way.

And because we can create so much empathy by holding the belief that we are all so unique. We can be curious about others and kind of unlock that intrigue as to, well, actually my way isn't gonna be the way is it? It's gonna be probably a collective of all of us together. That's gonna maybe shape something together.

So the ability to be collaborative comes I think comes from holding the belief that each of us are unique and therefore we'll all have a different take and can all bring something different to the table, whether that's our thoughts, our values, our beliefs, even our order of our values. What are we prioritizing at any one given time.

So going back to that definition the study of the structure of the subjective experience and the structure bit being that if we recognize something in ourselves that is familiar or something that we do fairly often, Like, I, I'll give you an example for me. So years and years ago, the thought of being on a podcast either on video or even just the sound would've been unimaginable for me because I had such a horrific fear of I can't even say it was public speaking.

It wasn't, a fear of being up on stage. It was just a fear of. Eyes on me, I would crumble. And it was horrendous. Now I knew that was something that I had formed over time. And, a set of experiences that may or may not be traumatic. We're not talking about kind of trauma per se here, but even.

A lot of people stem their fear of public speaking from things like having to put their hand up in school and getting an answer wrong. And from that point it's like, oh, I didn't like that. I've got the answer wrong. I'm really embarrassed. And you create these kind of string of things that finally gets you to this point that says, it's okay, Kerry.

I'm gonna keep protecting you. so therefore, you never put yourself forward for these opportunities because that's happened. So therefore that is a structure, that's a structure that's happened. It was very known to me. I was very good at it. I was very good at avoiding, speaking to people.

I was very good at avoiding eyes on me in any situation really. And I formed these kind of new strategies to avoid the thing that was painful. But I knew that for me to progress. I needed to change something, so my subjective experience had a structure behind it, and by studying it I could change it.

And that's N L P.

[00:32:44] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, brilliant. Thank you so much for that, Kerry. And I totally relate to that kind of anxiety you mentioned about putting yourself out there. I think I was exactly the same. What's been really interesting for me is as I've had to edit the episodes myself, You have to hear your voice in your ears again and oh my God is so cringey.

When, at first, when you're listening to yourself, and I can't even imagine me editing this part of the podcast now, and I'm gonna be like, oh, why did I sound like that? Why did I say that? It's amazing. And. I've talked to other guests as well, people who are enacting, for example, and I say to them like, so do you watch yourself on the screen, on the big screen or on the TV when you are in a movie or whatever.

They're shooting and they're like, no, I hate seeing myself. I hate watching myself back. And I'm like, why is that? Why are we as people really scared or not so confident of those things? It's just, Nuts. That's all I can say is it's just nuts. Why do we do that to ourselves? And even now I'm not fully confident about hearing myself back, but you kind of deal with it and you do get to get better with it, but it's still cringey for sure. Yeah.

[00:33:57] Kerry Nickols: And the choice point as to what you do with that, like for me I didn't do anything with it for a very long time, and I thought that it would either go away or I would just find a way of kind of dealing with it.

And that never happened for me. It got to a point where it just became so, Limiting that the pain of the limitation outweighed the pain that I was going through. And I thought, hold on a minute. I've gotta do something different here. So I think the choice point is always, I.

We can do nothing about it. We can immerse ourselves in it. And therefore the kind of repeatable action of it in the hopes that we feel differently about it and I think those things have been the go-to for a long time, but actually there's this whole other kind of realm of possibilities in which.

We can explore that in a different way. So I think one, the self-awareness, so, what's the secondary gain that we are getting from? Our response to that what is it that we are not liking about our voice? Is there a different frame that we can place on that.

And also that this thing of poaching, whether it's self coaching, and just the ability to coach yourself and that point of not feeling confident. Confident is a belief at its core is either a belief in a skill or an ability. Or it's a belief much kind of deeper than that.

It's the belief in ourself. So in any context that we are kind of dropped in, how do we feel about us? What do we believe in ourselves at that? Given moment. And I think exploring those types of things, either self-coaching or just thinking about the self-awareness around that.

Or getting a coach or going on things like N L P or and not just N L P. This is where right at the start of the podcast we were talking about this difference of professional development and personal development. And I think for so many years professional development has been the thing that organizations Have focused on, and that professional development might tell you the three golden steps of presenting in front of a audience.

What it will never do is give you the personal side of how your subjective experience of presenting. And so now with the world of work as it is what's required and what's expected and also. Not even just the heaviness of expectation, but just who, we want to be fulfilled as professionals and enjoy our working life and, make a difference and help others and do all the things.

Get great products out there, you know, be part of something really special. Most of us, I think, would like at least part of that, if not all of it resonates. So therefore, How our uniqueness becomes even more important in this space. So I think for many years, development has really missed a trip where it's just been about the specialism, it's just been about the framework.

It's just been about the domain expertise. And yet we've got these like wonderful human beings that could do so much for ourselves, for our mental wellbeing, for our own health, for our families, for the organization, when we do that level, I think of personal development.

It benefits or benefits society, the globe.

[00:37:46] Paddy Dhanda: Everywhere. Absolutely. And talking about benefiting society. You must have coached plenty of people. And can you give us an example of somebody that is particularly memorable for you, who went through this journey and then out on the other side?

It's completely transformed their life. Without giving names, obviously, cuz I'm sure some of your clients want to keep that kind of quite sensitive and confidential. But can you think of an example of someone that really sticks out for you, that went through this whole journey around their professional edge and came out on the other side that you thought, wow.

[00:38:29] Kerry Nickols: Yeah I think without giving too much away, the person that I'm thinking of I had the pleasure of working alongside them for some time and I always thought of them being, somebody that certainly that, inspired me. I think what they already brought to the table was a real raw honesty and openness. And and they were great technically and from their specialism and all of that stuff was great. But actually we held a few coaching sessions. And in those coaching sessions, I think what became very apparent was that there was just so much more. I think sometimes people think that coaching comes from a space of There's a problem, coaching is a way to solve it.

And yes, of course that can be the case. But it also can be just the good to great. So she basically realized the limitations that she was placing on herself, and it partly, it was confidence, but there was a whole other load of stuff in there and now she's gone out on her own.

She's global stages. She has gone from kind of limited to infinite, and I honestly think that whatever you choose to do with that freedom sometimes I've had the privilege of seeing people. Go really big with the outcomes of coaching, but I think that where I get the most pleasure is not necessarily from the biggest outcomes.

It's from the most impactful outcomes. And seeing somebody that I know could make a huge difference to the world. Be limited by certain kind of beliefs and thoughts and thinking and feeling and experiences. To see them then be unlimited and the world's, their oyster and whatever they go on to do with that thing is, many people are gonna benefit from it.

It's massive. I think coaching brings freedom and clarity and those two things are so underrated.

[00:41:02] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, brilliant. Thank you for sharing that, Kerry. And we're fast approaching time, so I'd love for you to give us maybe some resources that people can go to for finding out more.

And yeah, would love to hear how people can get in touch with you as well.

[00:41:18] Kerry Nickols: Yeah, I think just like as fun little starters cuz I think. Well, the fun is in the making, as I said earlier, on my belief set. So the first book that I'd recommend is a book called Alive at Work by Daniel Cable. And the reason that I'm choosing that book is that's where I got the thing about.

Choosing your own identity, your own title. It was from that book. There were some really great tips in there and some understanding about what it means to be a professional in today's world of work. And he comes at that from a neuroscience perspective, but it did certainly open my mind to some new things in terms of Ted Talks.

There are plenty people like Amy Edmondson and Brene Brown. But the one that I would like to share is probably my all time favorite again, because it's just so fun. So Tim Urban did inside the mind of a master procrastinator and that I think is if you're not very good at reading books, watch that first and then he'll get you to read the book.

Don't procrastinate. So, so that's a really good set of kind of Ted talks as well to to consider. And then lastly to connect with us. It would be lovely to meet new people and to, hear their journeys and where they're at and their experience of. Being a professional in today's world of work.

And the way that you can do that is either email is kerry@kepaga.com nice and easy or follow us on LinkedIn and Facebook. And on our website you'll find the scorecard, which I would say is probably the, if you are, if you're just looking at the moment for nothing else but to reflect, then that would be the starting point, I think on inside, outside, and leading edge.

[00:43:13] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, fantastic. And I do remember that. Ted talk because that's one where he has those little doodle images in the talk, doesn't he? Yeah. That's so memorable. I remember that. So, yeah, definitely check that one out for sure. And Kerry, thank you so much. We'll put those links in the show notes as well so folks can get access to you guys.

And yeah, I just want to thank you so much for for joining me today. It's been so fun. And. As always lovely to talk to you and catch up on things as well, so thank you so much.

[00:43:44] Kerry Nickols: Thank you. I'm off to make my rotis now.

[00:43:50] Paddy Dhanda: I'll have three please. Thanks Paddy. Oh, you're welcome.

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